OK so three fairly significant things have happened since my last post: firstly, United have won the league; secondly, United have won the Champions League; and thirdly, I had an argument with my mate MOC about who is the best manager in the Premier League. Now, I feel that the media outlets of the world have covered these first two events pretty comprehensively so I won’t add anything, except to crow a little bit about my prediction that Arsenal would fade badly while Chelsea would emerge as United’s closest challengers. Mystic me, eh?
Anyway, the story that has really been shockingly neglected is the argument between myself and MOC. Just to set the scene, MOC is a Liverpool fan. Now, of course, he can’t claim that Benitez is the best manager in the Premiership (at least not without a lot of people pointing and laughing at him) but nor can he face the truth that Sir Alex Ferguson is the best. It all happened a little time ago when Liverpool were still in the C’s League and United’s game at home against the gooners was at the forefront of our thinking.
MOC is a man of relatively few words and I never know when to shut up so here, in all (or at least most of) its splendour, is our exchange.
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MOC:
Man, I cant wait to play you in the final. Would be class, bigtime. We have a better team than last year, and I don’t think chelski have improved much. And also, tactics wise Grant doesnt really cut it.
Feel sorry for wenger, best manager ever in the premiership, but too stubborn in the transfer market, should have got a decent centre back In January.. Team didn’t have enough depth. I did say that arsenal would slow down near the end, and that L’pool would be up there…eh……
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UnitedViews:
Yeah. Although I still have the feeling we may succumb to Barca, I can’t wait for that tie.
You know I can’t let that ‘best manager ever in the premiership’ comment go, don’t you? For years the money men at Arsenal have been banging on about how Wenger’s got tons of cash to spend. This year, however briefly, they were able to tell us they were richer than United. In that context, not buying better players goes beyond stubbornness. It’s cowardice. He’s keeping expectations as low as possible so that he can exceed them without actually having to win anything. Every year, even when they were winning the league, we are told that the Arsenal team are still years away from reaching their potential. Well, just because they’re young doesn’t mean they’re going to get better (sometimes I think Rooney is the perfect example of this).
If Ferguson had three seasons finishing 4th, 4th and (quite likely) 3rd he would be in an enforced retirement by now. Wenger is quite possibly the best coach in the premiership but best manager? Not even close.
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MOC:
For the amount of resources he had over his time with arsenal, the way he changed “everything” with arsenal when he arrived; style of football,training,attitudes (a dying team – Bould, Adams, Dixon etc),the way he still won titles when he had absolutely no money when the new stadium was being built, the way he has made good unknown players into truly world class players… that’s is why he is definitely is the best coach and manager.
Hes only flaw is in the transfer market……
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UnitedViews:
Deep breath, mate…
If I was the owner at Everton, Wenger would be the guy I’d want. There is no better manager for creating winning teams on a limited budget. If all Abramovich really wanted was a team to play beautiful attacking football that he says he wants, then Wenger would be the guy for him too (although it’s worth mentioning that the performance that inspired Roman to buy a football club was United’s ill-fated 4-3 win over Real in the Champion’s League).
The way that Wenger took hold of Arsenal at a time when they were on the wane post-Rioch was remarkable. One thing I’d say is that having Bould, Adams, Dixon, Winterburn and Seaman at the back when he arrived made his job a great deal easier. They were already recognised as the best defensive unit in the Premier League (I don’t believe he’s ever managed to equal them) and their presence allowed Wenger to concentrate his efforts elsewhere (although he already had a bloke called ‘Bergkamp’ up front). What he did was to extend their careers by introducing better training/conditioning methodologies. However, I remember the talk at the time was all about how he would cope after they all retired. The fact that he went on to even greater success after they retired or were moved on is a testament to his talent as scout and coach.
However… to say that he is the ‘best manager in the premiership’ but ‘his only flaw is in the transfer market’ is a bit like saying someone is the best tennis player in the world… except they can’t serve. In the post-Abramovich era, you have to have a better strategy in the transfer market than buying lots and lots of promising kids and hoping that a percentage of them will turn out to be up to the job. Wenger is not at Everton. He is at a club with a recent record of domestic success. He is at a club that takes £41m every match day. He is at a club where they have seen a 54% increase in profits over last year. They can afford to spend.
In this context, I see that he has spent an incredible £18m since 2004. In the same period Chelsea have spent £178m, Liverpool £101m and United £75.3. He just hates spending money. Everyone from Ferdinand and Rooney to Torres and Mascherano he has dismissed as ‘over-priced’. What he doesn’t seem to get is that quality is expensive. These players may only be 5% better than a cheaper import but that 5% wins you silverware (Torres and Mascherano certainly will do at Liverpool). His record as a scout is outstanding but you can’t rely on unearthing a Vieira and Henry every time you build a team.
He said earlier this week that the only thing his squad lacked was maturity. Well, Arsene, there’s two ways to acquire maturity in your squad: either stick your hand in your pocket and buy a player with proven experience (Mascherano, Hargreaves…) and don’t baulk at the obscene price; or stop selling your players when they get over 30 (Pires, Llungberg). Giggs came on for the last few minutes yesterday and calmed things down, kept possession, played it cool. Would he still be at United if Wenger was in charge? Absolutely not. Will Gilberto still be there next season? I seriously doubt it.
Finally, like I say, what Wenger did when he arrived at Arsenal was truly remarkable but look at what Ferguson faced when he arrived at United: a club with high expectations but a long-standing record of failure (the opposite of George Graham’s legacy); a team that, with the notable exception of the captain, needed rebuilding from front to back; an unfit squad with a deeply engrained drinking culture; and a conservative board who were reluctant to spend big in the transfer market (the polar opposite of the noises emanating from the Emirates). Now look at what the two men have achieved. There can be no argument, surely. Wenger is the best coach the premiership has ever had. He is the best scout the premiership has ever had. But Ferguson is the best manager.
2-1 to United speaks volumes.
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MOC:
F**k me…
This is the longest email ever! Considering that I don’t remember getting home last nite from this german bar in Fulham that serves 1 litre jugs of beer…
Will digest the email!
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MOC:
Brief response…
Fergie isn’t exactly great in the transfter market either?
Was veron worth 24 million?
Was bartez worth 10 million?(or whatever)
Is Ferdinand worth 27 million?(bad man’s beckinbaur If you ask me, when he gets across the half way line he gets a nose bleed….)
Is rooney really worth 27 million? (he looks average compared to Ronaldo imo)
It took ferguson how many years to win the league? How long did it take Wenger?
The only flaw wenger has is in the transfer market and I think he will learn from ferguson and keep his older players as opposed to selling them when they reach 30 or so.
I can guarantee that wenger will buy big during the transfer market, he stubbornness can only be blamed on his nationality!
Agreed man u were the better team yesterday, I did say that arsenal would fall at the final hurdle…
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UnitedViews:
Don’t get me wrong. Fergie is no scout. He has had some real disasters in the transfer market. Veron: definitely! (Although don’t forget we offloaded him to Chelsea for £15m.) Also, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Taibi,… There’s plenty. But he takes a chance. When Veron proved to be a complete waste of cash he was slaughtered by opposing fans and media alike. Every time he spends a lot (or a little) on a single player at least half to the country is praying they’ll be a total waste of money. Does that stop him from sticking his neck on the line again? No.
We could argue about the quality or otherwise of Barthez, Ferdinand and Rooney but they play or played week in week out in a team that won the title. Barthez and Ferdinand have two of them. Rooney has a good chance of winning number two this year (I am counting no chickens). Even Veron won has a premiership medal to his name. No one likes Ferdinand, not even his own supporters. He’s the definitive big-time charlie but to deny his quality after the season he’s had smacks of burying your head in the sand. There are still people who say the earth is flat, you know. Rooney looks average compared to Ronaldo? Well, who doesn’t? Mind you, how good would Ronaldo be without a selfless striker like Rooney who’s prepared to fill the gap on the wing and set our Cristiano up with chances to stick away? See if little Michael Owen will do that for you!
If it’s bargains we’re after, Ferguson has had his successes in the transfer market. Cantona, Solskjaer and Schmeichel cost £3m… in total! Wenger has had his failures in the bargain basement – step forward Luzhny and Stepanovs (both of whom played in our 6-1 win against the Gunners). As I’ve said already, though, Wenger is the best scout in the premiership. Ferguson is a little over dependent on the word of his brother martin.
It took Ferguson 5 years to win the league. It took Wenger 2. I think I said in my last email something around the quality of the squad they inherited, so it’s fair to say that Arsene had a headstart.
Wenger has been at Arsenal for 11 seasons (soon to be 12). In that 11 seasons he has won the premiership 3 times. In Ferguson’s first 11 seasons he won it 4 times… and he was just getting started. After 13 years, Ferguson had the treble to his name. Will Wenger? I’m very happy to bet against it.
So you reckon Wenger will buy big? What’s big then? If he buys a player for more than £20m, I’ll buy you a pint. If he spends more than £50m in total, I’ll buy you another.
He’s going to hang on to his older players? Who are they? Gilberto and Lehmann. If either of them are at the Emirates next year, I’ll buy you another pint.
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MOC:
Come on Wenger….Spend the Dosh!
“Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger has vowed to spend in the summer, saying he is unafraid to pay big money for players he thinks are worth it. (Daily Star)”
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Anyway, that was the end of our discussion on the subject. I’ve a feeling I’ll be buying MOC at least one pint as Wenger may decide to hang on to Gilberto with Flamini having jumped ship.
What do you reckon? Can Wenger hold a candle to Fergie? Can he hold a candle at all? Is there another manager out there in the premiership who deserves to be called ‘the best’ head of either of these two? Incidentally, at the moment we’re just discussing current Premiership managers but some time soon I’ll be knocking Joe Fagan off his bloody perch.
